Author Topic: Ain't That America  (Read 592 times)

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JohnnyB

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Ain't That America
« on: July 24, 2009, 06:03:13 PM »



No real reason for posting this. I just liked it because it was taken in a rich suburb of Cleveland (Shaker Heights), and it made me a little homesick for Northern Ohio.

Harry Hijinks

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Re: Ain't That America
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2009, 06:05:34 PM »



No real reason for posting this. I just liked it because it was taken in a rich suburb of Cleveland (Shaker Heights), and it made me a little homesick for Northern Ohio.


what's that guy on the right going  feel like in 3.5 years?

m.quixote

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Re: Ain't That America
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2009, 06:06:58 PM »
what's that guy on the right going  feel like in 3.5 years?
sicker.  exhausted.

Harry Hijinks

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Re: Ain't That America
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2009, 06:07:25 PM »

pdowd

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Re: Ain't That America
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2009, 06:11:57 PM »
Can anyone find me a decent synopsis of the plan he has in mind?

I should watch his speech, but I'm assuming political run arounds with that. I am still yet to decide, but the fact that he forced it through Congress makes me question it, but maybe it will be a good thing.
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Ellie

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Re: Ain't That America
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2009, 06:40:01 PM »
Can anyone find me a decent synopsis of the plan he has in mind?

I should watch his speech, but I'm assuming political run arounds with that. I am still yet to decide, but the fact that he forced it through Congress makes me question it, but maybe it will be a good thing.

actually, I think he didn't force it through congress. from what I've heard they're not going to vote on it until fall now.

JohnnyB

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Re: Ain't That America
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2009, 06:43:44 PM »
actually, I think he didn't force it through congress. from what I've heard they're not going to vote on it until fall now.

Yeah, I heard the same. In his speech in Shaker Heights (photo above!) he said that there's no rush, he's hoping to sign something in the Fall.

goose

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Re: Ain't That America
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2009, 06:45:33 PM »
Apparently I live in a socialist utopia up here in Nova Scotia, because I love paying 5 bucks for a prescription. The trade-off is that here there is no sun.

Ellie

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Re: Ain't That America
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2009, 06:49:20 PM »
Yeah, I heard the same. In his speech in Shaker Heights (photo above!) he said that there's no rush, he's hoping to sign something in the Fall.

I have to say, I'm pretty impressed that he's taking a step back so everyone can take a measured approach to it.

Jenny Incompetence

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Re: Ain't That America
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2009, 07:16:49 PM »
Apparently I live in a socialist utopia up here in Nova Scotia, because I love paying 5 bucks for a prescription. The trade-off is that here there is no sun.

I will gladly trade the sun for $5 prescriptions.
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Re: Ain't That America
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2009, 07:39:27 PM »
Take your sanitized leftish politics, nice rock clubs and cleanly demarcated subgenres here please; http://www.fatwreck.com

Jenny Incompetence

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Re: Ain't That America
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2009, 07:40:38 PM »
I'm almost 40, dad rock is for me.
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Re: Ain't That America
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2009, 08:57:59 PM »
Instead of asking what Obama's healthcare plan is, why don't you ask what the right wing opponents' healthcare plan is?

Oh wait, that's right. The STATUS QUO.



At least most of the opposition on the left & moderate side is because his plan doesn't go far enough in removing insurers completely. Single payer's the way to go. Too bad we don't have the political climate in this country to go that far. I think it could if it were sold as "Medicare for all," but who knows.




From what I can tell, just skimming the news, the Obama plan has a Medicare-like governmental component (the "public option") as part of it. I believe there will be a group that will evaluate specific procedures as to effectiveness. I also think there will be some cost-cutting based on this evaluation.
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Re: Ain't That America
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2009, 09:00:19 PM »
P.S.- and fuck this thread for getting that godawful John Cougar Fuck Me Up The Ass Camp song stuck in my head!

Obama as a NATIONAL Socialist (as opposed to the normal, left-wing socialist), i.e. an arch-conservative, ha ha ha:

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blackandgold

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Re: Ain't That America
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2009, 12:54:22 AM »
actually, I think he didn't force it through congress. from what I've heard they're not going to vote on it until fall now.
I just read that the current bill won't get out of committee so the Democratic leadership is gonna circumvent normal House rules and skip the committee vote.

Instead of asking what Obama's healthcare plan is, why don't you ask what the right wing opponents' healthcare plan is?
They have plenty of ideas. Allowing health insurance to be purchased out of state would greatly lower costs by increasing competition. Health savings accounts. There are plenty of market based reforms that would decrease health care costs while still allowing people the choice of whether health care is something they'd like to spend money on.
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pdowd

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Re: Ain't That America
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2009, 12:57:53 AM »
It really seems that those who want to keep their plan will keep it but basically those who don't have healthcare will get it...what's so bad about that?
Paying taxes? Don't people already do that?
I think people are going nutso over this and they aren't sure why.
Quote from: Philbilly1
You'll figure out before too much longer that you fit in better with the corduroy-wearing, white belt crowd than with the leather jacket, chuck taylors crowd. I don't mean any disrespect by that at all either. I just think "punk" is a phase that you will soon outgrow.[/quote

blackandgold

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Re: Ain't That America
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2009, 01:01:47 AM »
It really seems that those who want to keep their plan will keep it but basically those who don't have healthcare will get it...what's so bad about that?
Paying taxes? Don't people already do that?
I think people are going nutso over this and they aren't sure why.
It's gonna raise taxes on businesses at a time when unemployment is out of control. However, if they don't raise taxes on businesses not providing health insurance, putting a public option in the bill would destroy private insurance for most people because businesses would all drop coverage.

Also, our national budget defecit is having huge negative effects on our economy. The Congressional Budget Office pretty much laughed at Obama's plan for paying for this without adding to the defecit. They say it will bankrupt the country.
"Dear Blackandgold, I've disliked you and your warped little mind from day one." Whoa Oh
"The irony is that what makes NYC great is that it is an enlightened mecca of open-minded culture and progress.  Grivet is is essentially a sheltered hillbilly that just so happens to be born there!" T. Redscare

blackandgold

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Re: Ain't That America
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2009, 01:10:49 AM »

They have plenty of ideas. Allowing health insurance to be purchased out of state would greatly lower costs by increasing competition.
From the Health Care Freedom Coalition:

Buying Health Insurance Across State Lines 
Individuals who buy their own health insurance plan and many small employers are limited in the type of health insurance that they can buy.  Most are forced to buy insurance in their state that contains all the benefit mandates and benefit regulations imposed on them by state legislators.  Families in Minnesota are forced to buy a health plan that contains 62 mandates, while families in Idaho can buy a plan with 13 mandates.  In New Jersey, a family HMO costs $1,652 per month, while a family can buy a HMO plan in Pennsylvania for $707 per month!

The Constitution permits interstate commerce, so American families should be allowed to buy health insurance that meets their health care needs and should be allowed to buy insurance from other states.  If a family in Idaho wants to buy a health care plan with all of Minnesota’s 63 mandates, they should have the choice to buy.  If a family in Minnesota wants to buy a health care plan with Idaho’s 13 mandates, they should have that choice.
 
. . .

Health Care Price Disclosure 
Since the creation of HSAs, more than 6 million Americans have chosen them for their health care needs.  While more Americans will continue to choose HSAs, it is important for America’s families to know the cost of health care.  Hospitals mark up their prices dramatically – some more than 500 percent – so it is important for an open health care system for shoppers to know the cost of the care that is being provided.

Hospitals and doctors should be encouraged as a condition of accepting Medicare and Medicaid reimbursement to publish their cost to provide the care.  They should also publish the reimbursement schedule from various payers, including Medicare and insurance companies, so consumers will be better educated.
 
. . .

More Competition Between Facilities 
Consolidation and mergers of hospitals has led to actual or near-monopoly conditions in many communities in the United States. Monopoly always leads to excessive prices, poor quality, and lack of innovation. The biggest obstacle to increasing innovation and competition are the Certificate of Need laws that are still in effect in most states. These laws are 1970s style regulations that allow existing facilities to block the establishment of new competitors. They should be repealed. 
"Dear Blackandgold, I've disliked you and your warped little mind from day one." Whoa Oh
"The irony is that what makes NYC great is that it is an enlightened mecca of open-minded culture and progress.  Grivet is is essentially a sheltered hillbilly that just so happens to be born there!" T. Redscare

lushj

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Re: Ain't That America
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2009, 04:33:17 AM »
I think people are going nutso over this and they aren't sure why.

They're being told to, and do so, without stopping to think about the whole situation.
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dickie studs

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Re: Ain't That America
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2009, 08:30:19 AM »
It's gonna raise taxes on businesses at a time when unemployment is out of control. However, if they don't raise taxes on businesses not providing health insurance, putting a public option in the bill would destroy private insurance for most people because businesses would all drop coverage.

Also, our national budget defecit is having huge negative effects on our economy. The Congressional Budget Office pretty much laughed at Obama's plan for paying for this without adding to the defecit. They say it will bankrupt the country.

Well, big business should pay taxes, instead of having off shore accounts and highly paid lawyers to beat paying taxes.

bickler

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Re: Ain't That America
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2009, 01:02:00 PM »
It's gonna raise taxes on businesses at a time when unemployment is out of control. However, if they don't raise taxes on businesses not providing health insurance, putting a public option in the bill would destroy private insurance for most people because businesses would all drop coverage.

Also, our national budget defecit is having huge negative effects on our economy. The Congressional Budget Office pretty much laughed at Obama's plan for paying for this without adding to the defecit. They say it will bankrupt the country.
If you don't mind... do you have any health insurance?  I have my own insurance and it is expensive as hell.  I have had various policies with several different companies over the past 10 years, and the premiums have gone up about 300% while I have had to continually increase the deductibles... from $250 when I started to $1000 now.  There was one year where the policy increased by 40%.  From my perspective, private health insurance needs to be destroyed or at least reconstructed.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2009, 01:29:57 PM by bickler »

doctoracula

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Re: Ain't That America
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2009, 01:07:15 PM »
ha.  lanaguage.

what are those dudes in the first post even protesting in front of?  are they just hangin out somewhere with signs?
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pdowd

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Re: Ain't That America
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2009, 01:16:42 PM »
It's gonna raise taxes on businesses at a time when unemployment is out of control. However, if they don't raise taxes on businesses not providing health insurance, putting a public option in the bill would destroy private insurance for most people because businesses would all drop coverage.

Also, our national budget defecit is having huge negative effects on our economy. The Congressional Budget Office pretty much laughed at Obama's plan for paying for this without adding to the defecit. They say it will bankrupt the country.

The taxes were the one thing I heard, it does seem that its going to cost more for businesses to provide healthcare causing an economical not lawful change, BUT, I believe that this is going to force private insurance companies to change their ways to more affordable more practical ways by having to compete with the basic coverage of the US gov't, which is good. You won't be forced into the health insurance plans of the insurance companies, but rather can choose the extra stuff and still be covered.
Quote from: Philbilly1
You'll figure out before too much longer that you fit in better with the corduroy-wearing, white belt crowd than with the leather jacket, chuck taylors crowd. I don't mean any disrespect by that at all either. I just think "punk" is a phase that you will soon outgrow.[/quote

blackandgold

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Re: Ain't That America
« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2009, 04:27:28 PM »
Well, big business should pay taxes, instead of having off shore accounts and highly paid lawyers to beat paying taxes.
Most big businesses already have employee health care plans. It's the medium sized businesses with around a 100 employees that the new taxes are gonna kill.

If you don't mind... do you have any health insurance?  I have my own insurance and it is expensive as hell.  I have had various policies with several different companies over the past 10 years, and the premiums have gone up about 300% while I have had to continually increase the deductibles... from $250 when I started to $1000 now.  There was one year where the policy increased by 40%.  From my perspective, private health insurance needs to be destroyed or at least reconstructed.
No, I don't have health insurance. Like I stated, there are many free market reforms that could be enacted the bring down health costs. The easiest one is to allow people to buy health insurance from other states. Democratic controlled states pass all kinds of regulations and mandates on the insurance companies which drives up the cost. If people don't want to pay the extra for the protection of those regulations and mandates they should be able to go buy insurance from a Republicna controlled state where it's generally cheaper.
"Dear Blackandgold, I've disliked you and your warped little mind from day one." Whoa Oh
"The irony is that what makes NYC great is that it is an enlightened mecca of open-minded culture and progress.  Grivet is is essentially a sheltered hillbilly that just so happens to be born there!" T. Redscare

Slappy

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Re: Ain't That America
« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2009, 02:20:29 AM »
Most big businesses already have employee health care plans. It's the medium sized businesses with around a 100 employees that the new taxes are gonna kill.
No, I don't have health insurance. Like I stated, there are many free market reforms that could be enacted the bring down health costs. The easiest one is to allow people to buy health insurance from other states. Democratic controlled states pass all kinds of regulations and mandates on the insurance companies which drives up the cost. If people don't want to pay the extra for the protection of those regulations and mandates they should be able to go buy insurance from a Republicna controlled state where it's generally cheaper.
I laugh anytime someone spouts free market. get real.